Hi. I'm running Windows 98.

I want to force the computer to stay on DOS after boot by default, automatically, just as if I had hit the F8 key (but I don't want to have to hit it)

Of course, I don't want to install another OS. I still want to work with Win98, but let's I want to have to type 'WIN' to get into windows.

I could solve this problem by adding this line to the end of AUTOEXEC.BAT:

%comspec%/k
-- or --
%comspec%/p

In the first one, typing 'exit' would take me to windows, but on the second one, that wouldn't happen (I would have to type 'WIN' to go to windows).

The problem is that it's not a very good solution, since it opens a child shell of command.com, wasting around 10K of memory for nothing (I have two command interpreters running, when I just need one, and I can't exit this second one because if I do so, I'm taken to windows). I need as much memory as I can get.

Is there another way to solve this problem ??

Thank you for your time.

PS: I'm not pretty sure this is ON-TOPIC for this forum...

-- Secret_Doom - Leonardo Pignataro --

secret_doom@hotmail.com
www.batch.hpg.com.br

I said:
"but let's I want to have to type 'WIN' to get into windows."

I meant:
"but let's SAY I want to have to type 'WIN' to get into windows."

-- Secret_Doom - Leonardo Pignataro --

secret_doom@hotmail.com
www.batch.hpg.com.br

Boot to real mode dos. Remove the attrib's from msdos.sys. Edit the file to;

bootgui=0

under the [Options] heading. (If there's no entry there place one there.)

Replace the attrib's, reboot.

(You may want to play around with what's loaded via config.sys and autoexec.bat TSR's to get the most out of your memory. Windows doesn't like/handles things better with nothing loaded high. Dos on the other hand allows loading things high to free up the first 640K of memory, which is where most (DOS) programs will run.
Here's my bootfiles to give you an idea of how I load things. (I usually call rundos.bat to load the DOS basics, which makes autoexec.bat a bit shorter and cleaner. I've copied that in here in the appropriate places for clarity.) This setup works really well for me, based on what I do. (I have 96 MB of memory.)

CONFIG.SYS;
===============
[Menu]
menucolor=11,0
menuitem=windows,Windows 98 Second Edition
menuitem=windowsRAM,Windows 98SE with 15MB RamDrive
menuitem=dos,DOS 7.1
menuitem=doscd,DOS 7.1 with CDROM Support
menuitem=dossound,DOS 7.1 with Sound
menuitem=doscdsound,DOS 7.1 with CD Support & Sound
menudefault=windows,8

[COMMON]
SWITCHES=/F
break=on

[windows]
dos=high,umb
FILES=40
BUFFERS=13

[windowsRAM]
include=windows

[dos]
dos=high,umb
SHELL=c:\COMMAND.COM c:\ /E:384 /p
DEVICE=c:\windows\HIMEM.SYS
device=c:\windows\emm386.exe noems frame=none I=B000-B7FF
BUFFERShigh=40
FILEShigh=40
stacks=9,256

[doscd]
include=dos
DEVICEhigh=e:\command\MTMCDAI.SYS /D:MTMIDE01

[dossound]
include=dos
DEVICEHIGH=C:\PROGRA~1\CREATIVE\CTSND\DRV\CTSB16.SYS /UNIT=0 /WIN95 /BLASTER=A:220 I:5 D:1 H:5
DEVICEhigh=C:\PROGRA~1\CREATIVE\CTSND\DRV\CTMMSYS.SYS

[doscdsound]
include=dossound
DEVICEhigh=e:\command\MTMCDAI.SYS /D:MTMIDE01

AUTOEXEC.BAT;
================
@ECHO OFF
::
COPY/V/Y D:\CALENDAR\TODAY.CAL D:\BACKUPS
::
%WINBOOTDIR%\COMMAND\DELTREE/Y %WINBOOTDIR%\APPLOG
%WINBOOTDIR%\COMMAND\DELTREE/Y C:\RECYCLED
::%WINBOOTDIR%\COMMAND\DELTREE/Y C:\windows\WIN386.SWP
IF EXIST C:\TREEINFO.NCD DEL C:\TREEINFO.NCD
::
%WINBOOTDIR%\COMMAND\DELTREE/Y D:\RECYCLED
::%WINBOOTDIR%\COMMAND\DELTREE/Y D:\WIN386.SWP
IF EXIST D:\TREEINFO.NCD DEL D:\TREEINFO.NCD
::
%WINBOOTDIR%\COMMAND\DELTREE/Y E:\RECYCLED
::%WINBOOTDIR%\COMMAND\DELTREE/Y E:\WIN386.SWP
IF EXIST E:\TREEINFO.NCD DEL E:\TREEINFO.NCD
::
%WINBOOTDIR%\COMMAND\DELTREE/Y F:\RECYCLED
::%WINBOOTDIR%\COMMAND\DELTREE/Y F:\WIN386.SWP
IF EXIST F:\TREEINFO.NCD DEL F:\TREEINFO.NCD
::
PATH %WINBOOTDIR%;%WINBOOTDIR%\COMMAND;C:\;D:\;D:\TOOLBOX;E:\;E:\BATCH\;E:\COMMAND\
::
GOTO %CONFIG%
::
::
:WINDOWS
path=%PATH%;C:\BITWARE\;"C:\PROGRAM FILES\WEB PUBLISH\MTS";F:\CD'S\98SE\TOOLS\OLDMSDOS\
SET DIRCMD=/A-D/O/P
%WINBOOTDIR%\WIN
GOTO END
::
::
:windowsRAM
path=%PATH%;C:\BITWARE\;"C:\PROGRAM FILES\WEB PUBLISH\MTS";G:\;G:\TEMP
SET DIRCMD=/A-D/O/P
e:\ramdrive\xmsdsk 15360 G: /C1 /T /Y
::md G:\Temp
::c:\windows\command\xcopy c:\windows\cookies\*.* g:\temp\cookies\ /e/v
::c:\windows\command\xcopy c:\windows\history\*.* g:\temp\history\ /e/v
::c:\windows\command\xcopy c:\windows\locals~1\*.* g:\temp\locals~1\ /e/v
%WINBOOTDIR%\WIN
GOTO END
::
::
:DOS
::call e:\batch\rundos.bat
path=%PATH%;F:\CD'S\98SE\TOOLS\OLDMSDOS\
SET COMSPEC=C:\COMMAND.COM
SET DIRCMD=/A-D/O/P
SET COPYCMD=/V/-Y
SET TEMP=%WINBOOTDIR%\TEMP
SET TMP=%WINBOOTDIR%\TEMP
IF EXIST %WINBOOTDIR%\SMARTDRV.EXE %WINBOOTDIR%\SMARTDRV.EXE 4096 16
LH E:\MOUSE\GMOUSE
LH %WINBOOTDIR%\COMMAND\DOSKEY/INSERT/REINSTALL
GOTO END
::
::
:DOSCD
LH %WINBOOTDIR%\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MTMIDE01 /M:10
::call e:\batch\rundos.bat
path=%PATH%;%CDROM%;F:\CD'S\98SE\TOOLS\OLDMSDOS\
SET COMSPEC=C:\COMMAND.COM
SET DIRCMD=/A-D/O/P
SET COPYCMD=/V/-Y
SET TEMP=%WINBOOTDIR%\TEMP
SET TMP=%WINBOOTDIR%\TEMP
IF EXIST %WINBOOTDIR%\SMARTDRV.EXE %WINBOOTDIR%\SMARTDRV.EXE 4096 16
LH E:\MOUSE\GMOUSE
LH %WINBOOTDIR%\COMMAND\DOSKEY/INSERT/REINSTALL
GOTO END
::
::
:DOSSOUND
::call e:\batch\rundos.bat
path=%PATH%;F:\CD'S\98SE\TOOLS\OLDMSDOS\
SET COMSPEC=C:\COMMAND.COM
SET DIRCMD=/A-D/O/P
SET COPYCMD=/V/-Y
SET TEMP=%WINBOOTDIR%\TEMP
SET TMP=%WINBOOTDIR%\TEMP
IF EXIST %WINBOOTDIR%\SMARTDRV.EXE %WINBOOTDIR%\SMARTDRV.EXE 4096 16
LH E:\MOUSE\GMOUSE
LH %WINBOOTDIR%\COMMAND\DOSKEY/INSERT/REINSTALL
%WINBOOTDIR%\CTCM
SET SOUND=C:\PROGRA~1\CREATIVE\CTSND
SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 T6
GOTO END
::
::
:DOSCDSOUND
LH %WINBOOTDIR%\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MTMIDE01 /M:10
::call e:\batch\rundos.bat
path=%PATH%;%CDROM%;F:\CD'S\98SE\TOOLS\OLDMSDOS\
SET COMSPEC=C:\COMMAND.COM
SET DIRCMD=/A-D/O/P
SET COPYCMD=/V/-Y
SET TEMP=%WINBOOTDIR%\TEMP
SET TMP=%WINBOOTDIR%\TEMP
IF EXIST %WINBOOTDIR%\SMARTDRV.EXE %WINBOOTDIR%\SMARTDRV.EXE 4096 16
LH E:\MOUSE\GMOUSE
LH %WINBOOTDIR%\COMMAND\DOSKEY/INSERT/REINSTALL
%WINBOOTDIR%\CTCM
SET SOUND=C:\PROGRA~1\CREATIVE\CTSND
SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 T6
GOTO END
::
::
:END
EXIT

Thank you very much Dan, that's EXATELY what I needed to know. I was also intending to make a boot menu (which now is ready, see bottom of file if you're interested).

I still have one question here:

There are two devices being loaded which aren't on config.sys (DBLBUFF.SYS and IFSHLP.SYS). I could prevent one of them from beign loaded by changing the following on my msdos.sys, at the [options] heading:

DoubleBuffer=0

It was originally 1. Ok, but how to prevent IFSHLP.SYS from beign loaded? Here follows the entire msdos.sys [options] heading:

[Options]
BootMulti=1
BootGUI=0
DoubleBuffer=0
AutoScan=1
WinVer=4.10.2222

Apart from that, there are only comments and the [Paths] heading.

Thanks again !!

If anyone is interested, here follows my autoexec.bat and config.sys files:

=== CONFIG.SYS BEGIN ===
[menu]
menuitem=default,Windows 98 with default configuration
submenu=dosmenu,DOS with EMS memory support
menudefault=default,4

[dosmenu]
menuitem=dos,CDROM support disabled (maximize avaliable memory)
menuitem=doscd,CDROM support enabled (reduces avaliable memory)

[default]
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\DISPLAY.SYS con=(ega,,1)
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\EBD\OAKCDROM.SYS /D:MSCD001
COUNTRY=055,850,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\COUNTRY.SYS
FILES=45
BUFFERS=45
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\DBLBUFF.SYS

[dos]
DOS=HIGH,UMB
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE

[doscd]
INCLUDE=dos
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\EBD\OAKCDROM.SYS /D:MSCD001

[common]

=== CONFIG.SYS END ===

=== AUTOEXEC.BAT BEGIN ===
SET PATH=%PATH%;C:\SYSBAT
SET DIRCMD=/OEG/A
SET BLASTER=A220 I7 D1 H7 P330 T6
SET SBPCI=C:\ARQUIV~1\CREATIVE\AUDIO\DOSDRV
goto %config%

:default
mode con codepage prepare=((850) C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\ega.cpi)
mode con codepage select=850
keyb br,,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\keyboard.sys
C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\DOSKEY.COM /INSERT /APPEDIT
C:\WINDOWS\WIN.COM
goto eof

:dos
:doscd
call c:\sysbat\init.bat

:eof

=== AUTOEXEC.BAT END ===

And here is INIT.BAT, which is called from autoexec.bat, from where I can load the mouse driver, mscdex and sound.

=== INIT.BAT BEGIN ===
@echo off
if not "%1"=="" goto %1
:loop
if not "%1"=="" goto eof
echo.
echo Choose device to install:
echo.
echo [0] EXIT
echo [1] CDROM - MDCDEX.EXE
echo [2] MOUSE - MOUSE.EXE
echo [3] SOUND - SBINIT.COM
echo.
CHOICE.COM /c0123
if not errorlevel=2 goto eof
cls
if errorlevel=4 goto sound
if errorlevel=3 goto mouse
if errorlevel=2 goto cdrom
:cdrom
C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD001 /L:D
goto loop
:mouse
C:\DOS\MOUSE\MOUSE.EXE
goto loop
:sound
%SBPCI%.\SBINIT.COM
goto loop
:eof
echo.

=== INIT.BAT END ===

-- Secret_Doom - Leonardo Pignataro --

secret_doom@hotmail.com
www.batch.hpg.com.br

Put DOS=NOAUTO in CONFIG.SYS.

You're welcome Secret_Doom. The drvspace and dblspace are used with compressed drives, so I don't use them either. Haven't figured out the IFSHLP.SYS thing yet. It always seems to load no matter what. I know it's "something_file_system_helper". Here's my msdos.sys options;

[Options]
drvspace=0
dblspace=0
BootMulti=0
BootGUI=0
BootWarn=0
Network=0
LOGO=0
DoubleBuffer=0
AutoScan=1
WinVer=4.10.2222
Bootkeys=1
BootMenu=0
BootMenuDelay=8

I'll try that, Wengier.
I'll let you know if I find out the IFSHLP.SYS thing, Dan!

-- Secret_Doom - Leonardo Pignataro --

secret_doom@hotmail.com
www.batch.hpg.com.br

geez - i thought it would be easier to d/l tweakui, and disable auto win boot.

guess not, or i am too lazy. . . .

Why use another piece of software (taking up hard drive space too) to do what can be done by you anyway?

I tryed Wengier's suggestion (put DOS=NOAUTO on config.sys). It worked, IFSHLP.SYS wasn't loaded. More interesting, even changing my msdos.sys to DoubleBuffer=1, DBLBUFF.SYS wasn't loaded eighter.

HOWEVER, that gave me a major error when loading Windows 98 with this config.sys:

DOS=HIGH,UMB,AUTO
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE

The error was about some VxD thing. The terrible blue screen appeared (it's the first time I've seen it appear before windows desktop is shown)

So, it's not a good solution, not at all.
In order to avoid such error, I can stand 3K of memory being wasted!

-- Secret_Doom - Leonardo Pignataro --

secret_doom@hotmail.com
www.batch.hpg.com.br

Secret_Doom, I had (have?) a text file I got somewhere with a really good explination of memory and windows. (I just went hunting for it but couldn't find it (yet). I based my config/autoexec configuration on this info. It also prompted me to alter system.ini. Anyway, this is why I don't load himem.sys or emm386 in a normal windows boot. I just did a mem/c/p in a dos window and himem (1K) gets loaded by the system;
===========================================

Modules using memory below 1 MB:

Name Total Conventional Upper Memory
------
MSDOS 18,432 (18K) 18,432 (18K) 0 (0K)
HIMEM 1,168 (1K) 1,168 (1K) 0 (0K)
IFSHLP 2,864 (3K) 2,864 (3K) 0 (0K)
COMMAND 7,424 (7K) 7,424 (7K) 0 (0K)
WIN 2,400 (2K) 2,400 (2K) 0 (0K)
vmm32 512 (1K) 512 (1K) 0 (0K)
COMMAND 7,392 (7K) 7,392 (7K) 0 (0K)
Free 614,784 (600K) 614,784 (600K) 0 (0K)

Memory Summary:

Type of Memory Total Used Free
--
Conventional 655,360 40,576 614,784
Upper 0 0 0
Reserved 0 0 0
Extended (XMS) 67,043,328 ? 99,446,784
--
Total memory 67,698,688 ? 100,061,568
Press any key to continue . . .
===========================================
(I hope this isn't as scrambled in the finished posting as it is in this paste.)

Also, here's what I added in system.ini;
(complete with my header reminding me I added these)
============================================
[386Enh]
;The following lines added by me
NoEMMDriver=True
EMMInclude=B000-B7FF
============================================
The B0000 etc is generally reserved memory address space for monochrome monitors, so this tells the system to go ahead and use it.

I'll keep looking for that info and post it if I find it.

Good Luck, and thanks for posting the ifshlp info.

Hi Dan. I don't load HIMEM.SYS when entering windows eighter. I just mentioned that because that's the config section I use for booting to DOS, from where I can also enter windows (though I usually reboot the computer to do so).

I haven't tested the DOS=NOAUTO with my section from config which is used for windows... Perhaps I should try to locate the conflict.

BTW, I was wondering... Doesn't matter how much RAM I have, the lower mem can't be bigger than 620K, isn't it? But the high memory is larger if I have a larger RAM, right? So, why not to put all DEVICEs as DEVICEHIGHs ???

PS: I'm very interested in that text file, but don't waste too much time on looking for it. Thanks for that.

-- Secret_Doom - Leonardo Pignataro --

secret_doom@hotmail.com
www.batch.hpg.com.br

on the matter of not being able to get to the desktop, the VxD thing, is (if my guess is right) due to the fact that virtual memory uses ifshlp to handle some of it's calls.

why not do your boot menu in config.sys, and use install and installhigh lines?

this should give you a choice of loading your windoze components or not at all.

just an idea from an insane idiot. . . .
(no, i do not mind you quoting the last line at me)

I'm not sure whether this is a solution or not, but incase there is a AUTOEXEC.DOS & CONFIG.DOS file(s) in the root, generally windows is not loaded, and u directly boot into dos. If I remember some progs like PQ Partition Magic used this (and I had a tough time trying to figure out how to get back to windoze.

Lg

You will ~not~ boot to dos with those .dos files present. When you load windows; 1) if those are on your hard drive, windows rems out the things it doesn't want running, and backs those up using the .dos extension. 2) If they are not there, windows creates them, empty.

Please, let's not loose the 'thinking line': the problem on don't loading Windows was already solved, the solution presented by Dan at response number 2 was just perfect.

We're now attempting to prevent IFSHLP.SYS from being loaded into memory. There's nowhere on config.sys nor in autoexec.bat saying that DOS should load it.

And I've also made a question about what's the problem on putting all DEVICEs as DEVICEHIGHs, so we can load everything needed on the upper memory.

Thanks for the additional info, lasith.

Fool, I don't understand what you said about INSTALL and INSTALLHIGH. BTW, are you sure INSTALLHIGH is a valid command for config.sys? I don't think so...

-- Secret_Doom - Leonardo Pignataro --

secret_doom@hotmail.com
www.batch.hpg.com.br

It's valid (for 98SE anyway). It's listed in c:\windows\config.txt.

(I'm working on the other things S_D, but I've also just eradicated a virus from my system (first time). I've got a post in the 9x forum on that one.) I haven't had much time to experiment. I'll be back. ;>)

Yes, the first 640K of memory is reserved for loading programs and drivers which may be required for whatever you're doing. I too load everything high when going to dos, because any dos run programs are run in that first 640K.
I cannot locate that info on loading things low for windows memory. What I have remembered though, (from this "article") is windows utilizes all the available memory on your system, all of which is "high" memory. If things are loaded high at bootup, some of that is lost. The first 640K is reserved at the dos level for "base" programs, and windows doesn't touch it (I believe.) So, if you load or loadhigh TSR's there, and then run windows, this just makes more things for windows to keep track of, with less memory to do it. Windows has all the memory managers, drive caches, CD drivers, yadda yadda, etc. built in. These don't have to be loaded prior to starting windows.

I've tried the dos=noauto with no problems, with my configuration. I ran several dos scenario's/config's (ie; with sound etc.) and it ran OK with each one;

[windows]
;dos=high,umb
FILES=40
BUFFERS=13

[dos]
dos=high,umb,noauto
SHELL=c:\COMMAND.COM c:\ /E:384 /p
DEVICE=c:\windows\HIMEM.SYS
device=c:\windows\emm386.exe noems frame=none I=B000-B7FF
BUFFERShigh=40
FILEShigh=40
stacks=9,256

If windows is to be run, that file needs to be loaded. If you need/have to jump to windows right from dos,(?) don't run the dos=noauto. As you said, it's only 3K. I like saving the 3K as I only have a paltry 96MB. (Thanks Wengier.) I keep my sessions totally seperate anyway, so a reboot to get the right config for each session is no big deal. When you quit/shut down windows, you have to reboot anyway to get to real mode dos again.

So, I guess that in our cases, on which have separate configurations for Windows and Dos, a good option is to load everything high on the DOS's configs, and everything low on Windows configs.

Thanks for all the help, Dan.

-- Secret_Doom - Leonardo Pignataro --

secret_doom@hotmail.com
www.batch.hpg.com.br

Glad to help. I grew up on VAX/VMS and then MSDOS. I'm most active in the windows9x forum, but I jump to the dos forum just to get that "back to the roots" feeling. ;>)